Question

Looking for some thoughts on this. I need to purchase a truck for my next vehicle. I would like to purchase a manual transmission crew cab truck, which leaves me with a Toyota Tacoma or a Jeep Gladiator. At any rate, I would like to purchase the car but $500 dollars a month for a payment is insane. Does anyone know if it makes sense to lease a vehicle at a low cost, and match the amount you pay over the course of a few years to make a down payment for purchase thereafter? What happened to trucks being cheap workhorses, right?!?  

Answer 1

My boss has a newer Jeep and doesnt like their quality, seemed to wobble at high speed and was a pain dealing with Jeep to get it fixed. Most of the regulatory agencies i deal with are buying Toyota. Seems to be the lowest cost long term as far as maintenance. My company chooses Ford but thats just preference, id prefer Toyota.  

Comments

@haar844 I actually really love the Ford Ranger, but it doesn’t come with a manual transmission, and I refuse to drop a potential $3, 000 on one if it should happen. A new clutch might run $800 and the goal is to long-term own the vehicle I choose to purchase. I really like the Gladiator because I have had a convertible for years and love the feeling of the wind and sun. It is also available in a manual transmission. I agree Toyota has a better track record overall.  

Answer 2

@cowboy67795 sticker shock. This is why people are leasing even when long-term it is a bad idea. They lack liquidity and cash flow. Also why Lyft and Uber are viable solutions as alternatives to owning or leasing. Back to your idea. A. Consider used? B. Consider new lease and then purchase your used vehicle down the road? -- you offered this option C. Consider borrow money with a margin loan against your stock portfolio? -- of course the loan balance will be chipped away by dividends and what you pay back to yourself versus a bank.  

Comments

@azarria94051 unfortunately for my daily drive Uber and Lyft would be too expensive, plus I have a house so I need something to transport materials for remodeling since I do a great deal of it on my own. Option A I’m trying to consider but the Gladiators are new for 2020 and the Tacoma’s are almost the same price new or used, maybe a difference of 3-5 thousand dollars, which isn’t peanuts but still the value they hold makes you question should you just go get the newer one for warranty purposes? Option B is what my initial post was asking about if anyone had heard of a lease to own option. I’ve only ever bought used cars that were cheaper. Whatever car I decide on I want to keep regardless, so even if it was a lease and then I tried purchasing it I didn’t know if anyone had heard of a program like that. Option C. well I don’t have any of those things, but I’m working towards it.  

---

@cowboy67795 go with option A but look at way older than that. Consider used Tacos with around mid 100k miles on them. That will still be reliable for many many more years.  

---

@schaerbeek35410 I need it to be a 4 door, planning for kids. Even with that parameter most of those trucks are still 20k. Again trucks are absurdly priced for “work” vehicles.  

---

@azarria94051 I appreciate the reading material!  

---

@cowboy67795 I don't think Tacoma's are absurdly priced. They are at least two times the size of a small sedan so there is a lot more material cost. We bought a 4 year old tacoma for 17k to replace our 16 year old tacoma that we sold for 2k. Hard to complain about that.  

---

@twin95472 how many miles though?  

---

@cowboy67795 It had 32, 000. I compared every vehicle we looked at by dividing the cost by how many "good" years it would likely have left. (we live in the NE so cars tend to rust out) The 3-4 year old trucks tended to be the best deal when looking at it that way. Also, I personally don't think getting a two year loan to finance part of the purchase price is a big deal. (rates are so low! ) I paid a whopping $300 in interest. well worth it for the flexibility.  

Answer 3

The manual requirement really limits you. Just some basic thoughts : Don't borrow unless it is a really great rate. Buy used, then trade up once you save more. Why buy a new truck for work? I love my tacoma, highly recommend. Lastly, automatics are good these days, I would not let that get in the way of a good deal.  

Comments

@manamanacle441 I want the manual because I think they’re more enjoyable to drive, but also long-term the transmission will have to be replaced at some point. I can afford a down payment for a lease and save up for a purchase once the lease is up. Just seeing what others think about this potential strategy.  

---

I think unless you have some specific application where driving a manual transmission is a must, you're really backing yourself into a corner with an apparently trivial detail. If you don't NEED the manual, buy a cheap automatic that gets the job done. Save the difference between the payment on the auto and the manual (or better yet, buy a car you can afford and don't have a car payment) and when you have enough pulled together to buy the car you want go ahead and buy it.  

---

@iconostasis23 it’s a matter of buying a truck that I actually need, and normally a manual transmission is cheaper than an automatic. It’s also lower maintenance to have a manual. I have no idea how anyone can buy a newer car. I don’t know anyone who can pay 20k for a vehicle in cash.  

---

First, allow me to introduce myself. Second, I'm not saying you don't need a truck. I'm saying (and you're also saying, by the way) that you don't need a manual transmission. "I think they're more enjoyable to drive. " You want a truck with a manual transmission. Third, I think your understanding of the price and reliability of a manual vs. automatic transmission is dated. Price is most strongly affected by supply when demand is low, and the fact of the matter is there just aren't that many manual transmissions being produced anymore for trucks Class 6 and below. They're even becoming harder to find and certainly less desirable in Class 7-8 trucks. If you're operating under the assumption that replacing or sourcing replacement parts for a manual transmission in the coming years will be easier or cheaper let me assure you that you will be disappointed. You seem really focused on the potential replacement costs for an automatic transmission vs. a clutch, but the way you are talking about acquiring this truck will cost you more than the $2, 200 spread between a $3, 000 tranny and an $800 clutch down the line.  

---

@iconostasis23 I’ve replaced transmissions in manuals before, they’re infinitely cheaper and I can do it myself. As I stated previously most maintenance on manuals is easier and I can do the majority of the work. The 2 cheapest trucks available in the American market are the Nissan Frontier and Chevy Colorado, both in manual transmission. For any normal person purchasing a vehicle without some form of financing is almost an impossibility. The other matter of practicality is I can go buy a new vehicle for the price of an older vehicle mile per mile. Example is a Dodge 2500 with 100k miles is $16, 000 or I can buy a year older Tacoma with 3k miles for $27, 000. If I want to keep the car it makes more sense over the long haul to buy the newer vehicle despite one being ‘cheaper. ’

---

@iconostasis23 manuals are still cheaper and will be for along time because I’m they are made of individually replaceable parts not computer controlled systems. I agree that they are getting harder to find, but manuals do last longer, are less costly to maintain, can provide better mileage and power (when either is desired) and offer built-in theft deterrent.  

---

@mcardle I didn’t want to include that as a security feature. but you’re not wrong haha.  

---

Ah, but no TRUE Scotsman! You've apparently got it figured out @cowboy67795 not sure why you were asking for advice. Your plan of leveraging the most expensive way to acquire a vehicle until you can roll it into the second most expensive way to acquire a vehicle in the interest of saving a few hypothetical dollars years in the future doesn't make sense. (It's not INFINITELY cheaper to put in a new clutch yourself vs having a new, re-manned or salvaged automatic put in at the shop. You're looking at a few-grand difference at the most. ) I get paid by manufacturers, dealers, fleets and leasing companies to map out and model decisions like this all the time. It's part of what I do for a living, it's one of the reasons I don't need to finance vehicles. It's a free country though, if you're in love with the plan you should do it.  

---

@iconostasis23 if you have a cheaper method to do it that meets the requirements I need, I’m all for hearing it. I don’t know of any truck that will hold out 20+ years that I can buy in cash today. Just based off basic math if I drive 15k miles a year in 20 years that’s 300k miles. I’m not aware of any vehicle with 400k miles on it that hasn’t had a transmission and a motor replaced in that time.  

---

The problem is you've built "wants" into your model and coded them as "needs. " Some of the new "needs" that you just threw into the scenario strike me as entirely unworkable given the quality of emissions compliant engines rolling off the line today but let's dispense with that. You don't "need" a crew cab, you want one. The kids aren't here yet. You don't "need" a manual transmission, you want one so you can work on it years from now when it needs replacing. You don't "need" to buy a vehicle that will last you forever right now, you want one because reasons. Buy the cheapest truck possible that will fit the "needs" of the situation, which for right now appear to be the capacity to haul relatively light materials and to last for 15k miles. If you absolutely MUST finance that vehicle, pay off the loan as fast as possible and ride it until the wheels fall off or until your needs change. Put the $500 that you appear to have carved out in your budget right now into a savings account once the car is yours. If the car only lasts a year, you'll have $6, 000 in a savings account to buy the next one. If it lasts longer than that (which it probably will) you'll have $6, 000+ to throw at the new vehicle. After 3 and 1/3 years of saving $500/ month you will have $20, 000 + whatever the old vehicle is worth to buy a truck that fits closer to your wants. I live in Milwaukee, on Autotrader there are over 190 trucks within 200 miles of me that I could acquire for under $3, 000. 9 of them even have manual transmissions. I'd bet over half of them would last me for at least 3. 5 years of driving 15k miles/ year. At which point you could trade it in or sell it for somewhere between $1, 000 to $1, 500 and have $21, 500 for your forever truck.  

---

@iconostasis23 the point is there will be children, so the need of that is non-negotiable. If you buy a truck for under 3k you’re asking for maintenance issues especially if it has been used for much more than standard wear and tear. Even if you save up $21, 500 in that time for a “new” truck you’re still shy $10, 000 for any thing that has 4 doors. Sorry bud I’m not buying what you’re selling because 1. You are focused on something that I will buy, use, and repair multiple times over, and 2. You’re clearly someone who doesn’t understand the value that comes with happiness. You’re right, I could drive a dumpster fire around and spend my time maintaining it, but my time and happiness must be valued a lot higher than yours are. I’m going to end this with you and I are very different people, and it’s shocking to see how personal you try to make things. After reviewing your profile though, it makes sense.  

---

You caught me brother. I'm just a miserable old codger with my wife and my kid and my paid for house and my paid for cars and my paid for vacations and my money in the bank. I valued long term happiness over short term pain. We sacrificed to put ourselves on firm financial footing and now we've got the world on a string and I'm plenty happy for the both of us. Enjoy your payments.  

---

@iconostasis23 I can believe you are miserable. your poor wife and kid.  

---

I’ll pass along your condolences.  

---

@iconostasis23 I’ll send flowers. no one should have to put up with that amount of attitude. I worry for their safety.  

---

Not sure where “hey guys, math is math” turned into fearing for their safety. Think it‘s pretty safe to say my contribution to this conversation is over. Good luck.  

---

@iconostasis23 it was over when you started making it personal, don’t get triggered bro.  

---

Ok, I’ll bite just the one more time because I genuinely never intended for any of this to be anything more a spirited discussion over the math of the transaction. At what point did this become personal? I mean, there was the part where you implied I’m a danger to my wife and kid, but before that?  

---

@iconostasis23 it’s funny you judge things based on what YOU think I need. You don’t know anything about me, or what my actual needs are. Instead of offering perspective of what’s out there or attempting to be a genuinely good human being, you decided to criticize what you deem a person “needs” the sheer level of arrogance is astounding. Finally I do stand behind my statements because you took it there, I’m just better at being a jerk than you it seem.  

---

Fair enough. My only intention was to challenge some of your foundational assumptions about this transaction that would give you more options to solve this problem and put you in a better long term position to build wealth. If that came across as a personal attack it certainly wasn’t my intention and I extend a sincere apology, was never my aim.  

---

@iconostasis23 fair enough my apologies for my quips.  

Answer 4

Nissan frontier is a third option. Small format truck like the Tacoma or Jeep but more affordable. They ditched the manual for 2020 but you may be able to find a new 2019 or a slightly used one.  

Comments

@lunde4652 I’ve looked into the Frontier and heard/read mixed reviews. They are certainly cheaper, but I’ve heard the quality is lacking. Nissan’s trucks kill me because they haven’t updated them in 10 years. Still, manual, and cheap are hard to fight against.  

Answer 5

You definitely might be able to negotiate a really good price on the gladiator. My buddy that works at a jeep dealership said they are having a really tough time selling them.  

Comments

@nimesh read an article last night about how they aren’t selling well, which blows my mind.  

Answer 6

I think you may want to go do more research on a manual transmission. Repairs on newer ones are just as expensive as regular transmissions these days. They also don’t give you warning signs of going out like the older manual transmissions these days. I’m not gonna knock anyone on the brand they want to choose but having worked in automotive for years I’d never buy a first year model of anything. There are too many bugs to be worked out in them. There are a lot of good used trucks on the market if you look in the right places. Good luck with your decision making.  

Answer 7

Car loans and leases are silly. Save or use 0% interest short term unsecured debt you pay off fast to buy something used. 3-10k truck does the same thing as a 30-45k truck and you aren't paying 20% of your income to own. Use the 500 a month you save to invest in your business or paying other debt. Just my 2 cents. And the Tacoma's are awesome and theres a reason they cost more and hold resale

Answer 8

Having worked in the auto business, specifically on the finance side with loans and try to be as financially frugal and smart as possible. My first generic questions to you is how often do you get a new vehicle and why? Do you plan on keeping this vehicle for 7-10 years? Why are you looking new vs. used? My next few questions would be has a dealer given you a quote on what the lease breakdown would look like? Money down, payment, etc.? Also, every lease comes with a purchase option which is basically the cost you can choose to buy the vehicle for when that’s done. You could choose to buy the vehicle at that point (or finance it with another company) or turn it in. On a side note I completely understand the manual transmission desire. It is not completely necessary but is so much more enjoyable.  

Comments

@toll4537 so my goal is to keep this car until the wheels fall off. I don’t like the idea of trading vehicles often, and if I get something I enjoy and can play with but is also functional I don’t typically see a next year car model and go I need the “new” one. I’m even a bit of a Luddite. I frequently look at vehicles and ask, why is this feature even on here? (Not to be preachy but a backup camera and 4G wireless built into a car is the dumbest thing I’ve seen. Most phone plans offer unlimited data and reasonable rates AND just reach your arm around the passenger seat and back the car up. lazy people. ) I’m also not really looking for new, but I want a truck with low miles but will be good to go for 10+ years. Ideally if I could find a reasonably priced 2016 or 2017 Tacoma 4-door I would be happy. It has the functionality I need but is customizable enough I could update it with things I wanted. I’ve also looked at the newer Ford Rangers, and for the price I might could deal with an automatic transmission. As for offers, I’m only in the research process but I’m looking to buy within the next year.  

---

@cowboy67795 I used to think the exact same thing about back up cameras. Until I got one. Parallel parking I can get within an inch of another car when getting into tight spaces. I can line up on a trailer first time every time when I don’t have a spotter. And you can back out of blind parking spots knowing you’re in the clear. They are worth every penny.  

---

@endanger656 a backup camera can serve a purpose, especially for hauling and things like that, but it’s the standardization that I feel keeps driving the cost of cars/trucks up. Seriously though 4G hotspot. why, just why?  

---

Yeah I’m with you on the 4G

Answer 9

Why are you limiting yourself to these options? Tacomas have crap fuel mileage. Get a used F-150 eco boost. It gets great fuel mileage and you can find used trucks for 15-20k. Leasing is a rip off.  

Comments

@lunde4652 it’s not a necessity, but it is something that I value much higher than a back up camera, a 4G wireless hotspot, auto-dimming rear view mirrors, or the other “standard” nonsense that comes on modern vehicles. If I really wanted to go cheap, I could go with a Frontier, but I’ve not heard good reviews.  

---

Ha once you get an auto dimming mirror and back up camera you might not feel that way.  

---

@endanger656 I’ve lived without them my whole life and several times nearly had the rear of the car taken off watching the backup camera. That all is besides the fact those items add like a grand to a car for some reason.  

---

I hear you. But these are tools that make for a safer driving experience. 1k for added safety for my family is well worth.  

---

@endanger656 that could be the difference, just my opinion it’s one more thing to break. I still think the back up camera is dangerous, haha.