Question

Hi, Im planning this setup for my new 5. 000 sqft house, is based on wifi (zwave or zigbee will disappear) protocol. Wifi Network: 7 pakedge access points and a netgear or cisco router 4 Wifi ecobee 3 lite 40 Wifi tasmotized sonoff minis 6 sonos wifi 8 alexas wifi 1 rachio wifi 4 wifi firestick tv 6 wyze cam wifi 4 wifi computers 1 ring doorbell wifi Im thinks for a smartthings hub. but none of the components are zwave. Is it good to go smartthings? Another question: is it good to go wifi based?  

Answer 1

I wouldn't go wifi. You mentioned Zwave or zigbee will go away, but wifi will change as well. Further, the more nodes you add to a Zwave or zigbee network, the stronger it gets. The more you add to a wireless network the more congested it will get. Just my humble opinion, I'd go with Zwave.  

Comments

@lott320 For congestion i have 7 pakedge access points (400 usd each) and a cisco router designed for smarthomes. you think it will become unstable?  

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Why are you buying pakedge. Waste of money. Hell it's a control 4 brand.  

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@electoral my house is concrete and ubiquiti is bad at crossing walls, pakedge crossed 3 walls and ubiquiti none

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Americans love ubiquiti since they have wood houses mainly, so not an issue the concrete wall. Which is a major concern in latam

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I have ligowave ap's at home

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I'd opt for unifi and ZigBee. ZigBee was chosen by Apple, Google etc over z wave so will probably see more development. Unifi just hasn't let me down (2-3yrs+)

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@elene you have a 5000 sqft concrete house? Ubiquiti is a mess and dont cross walls

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@overset8553 not that big but I have had them in three different dwellings without issue and I've seen them in schools, hospitals, and governmental buildings so they must be doing something right. I personally had ac pro's. Always placed central in rooms etc.  

Answer 2

WiFi is great for mains powered devices. Zigbee is great for battery powered devices.  

Comments

@kylstra i have no battery powered stuff in my house design, is a maintenance effort not willing to run

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@overset8553 Great if you can design it like that. Hard wired door sensors and PIR's?  

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@kylstra not interested in door sensors. only 1 or 2 room wifi plugged sensors

Answer 3

Zigbee and zwave aren't cloud based, they won't "go away". Once you install them in your house, they will always be there. Zwave and zigbee are a better solution than wifi

Comments

I agree - they are better solutions unless you can get wifi devices away from the cloud

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@kylstra that is what tasmota do with sonoff or am i wrong?  

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They put them out of the cloud

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@overset8553 I prefer to separate my home automation from my “computing” so I can upgrade my wifi (think a decade in the future) without breaking legacy devices (that may not support a newer WiFi tech for instance)

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@unclothe1851 ok that bet, but better bet is wifi than zwave. Also that is why i buy sonoff cause i know this is evolving rapidly and dont want to be stuck with pricey garbage in 5 years

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@overset8553 once again, zwave will continue to work indefinitely. Local protocols won’t be obsolete. WiFi devices can be local too, but it’s just putting too many eggs in one basket for me. Just look at WiFi saturation over the past 5-10 years - its increased 10 fold and we all have purchased new access points to compensate. Zwave is dedicated to HA so it has remained stable. I’ve had smartthings and zwave switches in my house for 7 years.  

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@unclothe1851 but at what price stable? 200 usd in sonoff vs 2000 usd in inovelli for instance. Good wifi nerwork is stable

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@overset8553 I understand you are focused on WiFi due to its perceived “staying power”, however there are so many cons. First it requires a lot of custom integration. It’s high energy. Packet size with TCP/IP is way too large for a toggle command. Segmentation is an issue if you want to protect the rest of your network from an iOT vulnerability. This list goes on and on. The fact that it is proliferant May in fact be the only pro.  

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@sequential91 performance review of the tasmota sonoff are very good. Of course i would love to have crestron and lutron but is not worth the money.  

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The payoff for a 2000 usd is just not worth the higher performance

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@sequential91 leach are you saying my system will go down and have big delays sistematically?  

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@overset8553 hey, in 5 years the only thing that is not pricey garbage is a bar of gold. To understand the tech world between now and 2025 one needs only to look back to 2015 with a forward calculated multiplier to account for the ever increasing pace of change.  

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@sequential91 so buy sonoff, is cheap and can be replaced

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@overset8553 stable now yes. but once again, how many times have you upgraded your WiFi in the past 10 years? Probably at least a few.  

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@unclothe1851 2. 4 ghz not in 10 years

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@overset8553 ok well it sounds like you’ve made up your mind and just want people here to validate it

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@overset8553 hold on, wasn’t your goal NOT to have to replace stuff due to obsolescence?  

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It will be garbage only  

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@sequential91 yes, not my only goal

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@unclothe1851 a bit  but im flexible to good arguments

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@overset8553 I’m saying your system will be a configuration nightmare using an IP network. Simply put, they are better iOT protocols, and yes there will be delays with anything, the question is what is your tolerance, and that depends heavily on use case.  

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Sonoff is not UL listed. If something happens and it starts a fire, that 200 vs 2000 won't seem like much especially considering you will be lucky if your insurance even covers it.  

Answer 4

Not WiFi, zwave/zigbee. Let me know if you would like advice

Comments

@deberadeberry like paid advice?  

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@overset8553 any advice  

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@deberadeberry ok why not wifi then? Sonoff 5 usd tasmotized have very good reviews on performance. On the wifi side im investing in high end performance network. Pakedge plus cisco. On design there will be one wifi dedicated network for smarthome and all streaming via ethernet cable.  

Answer 5

Just here to say that zigbee and zwave aren't going anywhere. They are superior for automation for many reasons (builds it's own mesh network, lower power, smaller devices, local control, zwave is 900mhz so it has better range, which would be important with that much concrete, and zwave will also never fight with 2. 4Ghz wifi. ) Anywho, carry on.  

Comments

@imperturbation91375 that is a good point mike

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@imperturbation91375 sonoff will not send signal back i guess.  

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@overset8553 that would be my concern. Client devices wont have a radio that's as strong as a high end long range AP, so you might have issues with them.  

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@overset8553 regarding alexa, "voice control" is just that. control. I prefer true automation. I don't want to have to tell guests how to turn things on/off by voice. I'd rather things turn on/off automatically instead! Obviously not all lights/switches, but for many, it is awfully nice. Indoor and outdoor. I have a red strobe start blinking if motion is detected on my porch or balcony when the house is in 'away mode'

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@overset8553 Whatever you do, just make sure you choose devices that you can automate with other devices easily for future expansion. and without using very limited cloud systems like IFTTT. (that's the other thing about hubs - automation can often happen locally on the hub itself between all devices connected to it)

Answer 6

Your internal walls are concrete? That’s a serious problem for any RF only system. Had the same problem controlling my pool equipment that was behind 2 block walls. Only system that would work reliably was Insteon because it communicates on existing electrical wiring and is also a mesh network

Answer 7

Zigbee and Zwave are going nowhere. On the other hand all those WiFi devices are mostly 802. 11/b/g (made obsolete by 5ghz in 802. 11/n in 2009) and therefore their days are already numbered.  

Answer 8

I don’t recommend wifi for lightning you should try Insteon instead it’s better to have one hub controlling the lights that way you only use one ip

Answer 9

What are the Sonoff Mini's being used for?  

Comments

From their site.  

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@kylstra Laren it seems you must do research on sonoff mini

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Do you own any and tested them?  

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@kylstra Laren not yet, did you see the video?  

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Get one and then we can talk again.  

Answer 10

Brother must be selling face masks in respiratory machines

Answer 11

You're getting a lot of replies with good advice but you already seem convinced on what route you want to go. Good luck!  

Comments

@lumper in ewelink groups all are doing good with strong wifi setup and wifi sonoff. i guess you are mostly stuck with zwave investment and dont want to face new paths. Anyway i will pursue my cheap project and will tell how it went. I apreciate your advices! Thanks very much

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@overset8553 I remember reading 8 years ago that zwave/zigbee would be obsolete by 2015. still going strong!  

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I believe Zigbee 3 was just ratified last year. Seems like it’s still going pretty strong.  

Answer 12

I would lean a totally different direction personally.  

Answer 13

You definitely need to consider unifi by ubiquity

Answer 14

If this is a 5000sf house, putting a DIY off the shelf plug-in system is nuts anyway. Your only practical sensible options are: Lutron Insteon Crestron Control4 Savant