Question

Hello TBM Family!  I have a question and I usually don’t post things like this, but I thought I’d give it a try since we are all one in sharing the same interest.Hello TBM Family! I have a question and I usually don’t post things like this, but I thought I’d give it a try since we are all one in sharing the same interest. Thanks in advance for reading this and commenting ! My brother-in-law and his wife has been struggling with money for 10 years of their marriage (entire time) together. They are losing sleep towards the end of the month when they have to come up with money to pay their rent, car payments, etc. They’ve asked me a few times for a quick loan. 5 years ago, I gave them $5000 to help them get back on their feet (not really expecting a repayment). And no, I didn’t get a repayment to this day. That’s absolutely fine. But I realized as I have been on this journey just like all of you, never to loan anyone money unless I know they budget. So I told them that I’m willing to help as long as I see them budgeting each month. I bought the download version (since the workbook is sold out in TBM shop) and made them a nice binder for the year. They have been arguing every time they opened the book (as I’m told). I still see them shopping Amazon daily, going on short trips because friends came into town, etc. ahh Please don’t get me wrong, they are the nicest humble people. They just have not had their sick and tired moment. I think. Here’s my question to everyone, While my heart screams for them to build a better money literacy, I know I can’t make the decision for them to actually do it with genuine interest like we all have. What do you think I should do at this point?  

Answer 1

You can bring a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. You have gone above and beyond and now it's time to let them be. They will only change if they want to.  

Comments

@interchange you are so right. It’s like my passion for them to be better is killing me inside!  

Answer 2

I think you should step back. Like You said if they haven’t had their break through moment then they will just keep blowing the money you are giving them to get ahead and it’s money you could be using for your own goals.  

Answer 3

That’s tough! But you’re right, you cannot make them work towards a better financial path. Lead by example, support when questions are asked, but I agree, no more loans unless they have committed to a budget. Or if something must be paid, maybe pay it directly so you know the money is being used appropriately. So hard when it’s family  

Answer 4

I think you need to back off. They don’t seem ready yet. Maybe once you tell them “no. I can’t help” . and they hit “rock bottom” they will be ready. I wouldn’t necessarily turn your back on them but you can draw the line at giving them money (loan or not). You can help guide them through their journey and give advice.  

Answer 5

I think you should still offer them help on budgeting when they ask, but until they are more responsible, don’t give them any money, no matter how hard it is.  

Comments

@siskind yes. it’s hard to say no time and time again!  

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@asparagus I know! I’m the same way, I like to help. I’ve started to realize though that throwing money to “help” isn’t really “help”.  

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@siskind totally agree with you here. I shall endure their journey to face facts in their lives. it’s just 10 years. and they are now talking about separating. It sucks to hear this conversation not because they don’t love each other but because of something they can totally change.  

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@asparagus they aren’t talking about separation just because of finances I bet. And throwing money at them won’t help. Be confident on that! They have to figure their path out

Answer 6

I would walk away. It's not your battle, no matter how much you want it for them. All you can do is lead by example so they can see your success.  

Answer 7

And no more loaning them money.  

Answer 8

Such a tough situation for sure. I think it’s best to just say “I’d love to be supportive and an encouragement to you by showing you the methods and steps that have worked for me, so if you ever are interested in that please let me know. ” Or something along those lines. No lending money or preaching to them, but just being there as a mentor if they ever choose would probably be the best most long-lasting investment you could give them. Keep up the good work and leading by example! They’ll get motivated on their own time, and if they don’t, it’s not your fault. They need a “why” and you can’t be that for them.  

Answer 9

You can’t. And i would not loan them any more money as you are actually enabling them. When they don’t get that next loan. at some point they will break. You can applaud them when they get through it. Cheer them on. In the meantime- hands off.  

Answer 10

I wouldn’t give them any more money. You’ve helped them so much. $5k is A LOT.  

Answer 11

Definitely no more money. That could be one of the reasons they refuse to start getting better with money because they seem to view you as their rolling ATM unfortunately. Just show some tough love and maybe itll pay off :)

Answer 12

Stay out of it. Their finances, their business. Even if you’ve given them money just think to yourself that once you release those funds they are no longer yours to worry about. I understand that is hard to do especially seeing them still being wasteful but it’ll just drive you crazy to keep Worrying about it. Just don’t give them anymore loans from you and if they ask tell them why. That is the one thing you can control there.  

Answer 13

If it were me, I wouldn’t help them financially at this point. You’ve given the tool to help themselves. If they choose not to, then that is their choice. They may need to learn the hard way.  

Answer 14

You are setting a great example for them but by lending them money it’s enabling them. Be strong! I would do anything for my brother (he’s my favourite family member) except give him money. He is just not able to handle it.  

Answer 15

Stop helping. It fuckin sucks but that's not your responsibility. You tried with the budgeting. your getting "excuses" . don't hurt yourself over someone else's actions.  

Answer 16

They will never have their Rock bottom moment if you help them. You can lead a horse to water. Walk away from trying to help and loans before It comes between you and them for the worst.  

Answer 17

I would offer to help them with their budget if thats something they're comfortable letting you in on, but otherwise theres nothing you can do. you have given them the tools to be successful and they're not utilizing them. That is on them. they likely continue to live the way they do, becuase they're not ready to change. they're likely not ready to change because they have always had someone bail them out.  

Comments

My husband makes about 2k more than i do each month. he refuses to sacrifice, refuses to let me help him, refuses to take my financial advise. because of it, he pays over 1000/month just to minimum cc payments and his truck payment and most months barley scrapes by because he refuses to give up reckless spending. i on the other hand am a saver and have always been cautious with money. i was able to pay off all cc debt, put myself through school (i took out loans but they were 100% paid off within 9 months), paid my car off 18 months early, have 3 months of my income saved, and am cash flowing a 2k vacation. he admits i'm better with money and admits i'm really good with managing money, but he's not ready to give up that control of his own finances to let me help him with his. sounds like your brother in law is in the same boat as my husband. i know how frustrating it is to want to help someone and to have the tools to be able to help them and teach them. but until your BIL and his wife are ready to change. then they wont.  

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@diapedesis6 wow! Girl you are doing amazing things for yourself! You’re very right along with all the other friends that commented. If they’re not ready, there’s a limit to what I can do for them. It’s just I want so badly for them to be set on a good financial future and not feel like I’m doing something wrong because I am disciplining my family to make smarter choices. ahh

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@asparagus thank you. It’s taken years and lots of sacrifice, but it’s given me freedom. It still drives me absolutely nuts to know how much debt my husband is in and to know that if he would let me, I could easily help him pay all his debt off within a year or so but I refuse to do more work on someone else’s finance then they are willing to do themselves. I am there as a guide as a mentor and to help when asked, but I will not do something when it’s so obvious they don’t want it. Try to remember that for your situation

Answer 18

This is so hard! I’ve been there. I ended up taking over the finances of a family member for this very reason. I budget, set their monthly spending in place and then help fill the gaps as needed. I feel better about it (because The fact is I’m going to help no matter what - so at least now I’m not mad at their spending because I’ve set it). I have another family member who “owes” me a lot of money and I’ll never get it back (same as you, I never lend expecting it to come back). this family member won’t even allow me to show them how to budget so I say no from now on. In an emergency I would buy her children food or whatever, but I’m not bailing out the house or the life choices anymore.  

Comments

@boylan wow! This might be an option for us as well! Thank you for sharing. Yes, it’s really hard to see this as my husband has one sibling and he’s it.  

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@asparagus yes! It’s easy to say “walk away” but it isn’t easy to actually do it. ❤️ so setting your own limit/boundaries is good (discuss with your hubby and decide together)

Answer 19

No more loaning money to them, to start with.  

Answer 20

If they are not trying to change the way the spend I wouldn't help

Answer 21

At this point, do nothing. If you loan them money again, they won't learn and they won't have the "ah-ha" moment they need to change. They really need the feel the Awareness stage. We can keep saving them or giving them handouts. You've already helped them once in the past without any payback (which you're ok with with), but now is the time for them to do action on their own part if they want to sleep easy again. The first step is always hard but hopefully they will realize it will only give them peace in the future and for the future. I did the same with my sister and I gave her an ultimatum - I pay her cc bill of $4k, only if she and her new husband follow the Dave Ramsey or TBM steps. She has yet to show me a budget. Until then, she's paying the minimum payment on her cc.  

Comments

@statue yes. I agree. It’s something I will have to let them face.  

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@asparagus yea think of it as a blessing in disguise. Bless your heart for being so compassionate ❤

Answer 22

You have given them the best tool. But you cannot save them no matter how much you want to. They may not be truly ready to learn this way of life. That's ok. But you can't force it. When they are ready, they will get on it and it will click. In the meantime. Just as everyone else has advised, stay out of it. If they come knocking at the door for money, it's gonna have to be a hard pass. The most loving gesture you can give is your boundary with them and with yourself. Saying no will go further for them than any dollar amount. Good luck!  

Answer 23

Put up those boundaries girl! And never loan money to ANYONE. If you want to give them money as a gift, go for it. But you’ve set that expectation that you will bail them out and they are taking advantage. I couldn’t imagine taking trips for fun when I owe someone money!  

Comments

@jetty I’m with you here. It’s frustrating to see them make these choices for themselves time after time

Answer 24

Stand your ground. You have been beyond generous. $5k is a lot of money. Tell them you are available if they want help budgeting. but that’s it.  

Answer 25

I'm still learning not to spend money on stuff we dont need. Right now all my extra cash I'm throwing it on my credit cards to have it paid off in April of this year

Answer 26

Let them get their ahaa moment.  

Comments

@perrotta yes I know. I’ve been crossing fingers for them for the last 10 years  

Answer 27

You have went above and beyond. Sadly, I agree, let them have their sick and tired moment. They are adults, just like you and I and everyone else. I never lend anyone money. When they bring it up, let them know you sympathize with their struggles and hope they find the help and relief they need. Until they have no other option, they will not change.  

Answer 28

Stop loaning!  

Answer 29

You've done what you can. My dad told me that a big factor in fights in a marriage is money. I used to get into fights with my husband because of his spending. But that's in the past. We are doing better because we are trying and want to be. If they're not on the same path then that's on them. Not you.  

Comments

@valentia your dad is absolutely wise! Fortunately or unfortunately, my husband is not too interested in money side of things. He just loves his work . So he puts trust in me to guide this family’s money path . As I see my BIL’s couple, I realize how important it is to want the same future as a couple.  

Answer 30

Step back and wait for them to unfortunately have their absolute rock bottom. ❤️

Answer 31

Our best friends are the SAME way! They have become family to us, we’ve given them money (before we started our budget journey) and we feed them dinner frequently. I sat down with them last week and it was a nightmare. They are horrible at budgeting and don’t really care. I’m to the point where I’m gonna say that I don’t want to hear them complain if they aren’t willing to put in the work.  

Comments

@vitiate seriously!  

Answer 32

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I think you are harming their relationship and their financial future with your help. It is their marriage and their money. Until they are willing to fight for these things instead of with each other, your financial help is enabling them to continue to make poor life choices.  

Comments

@radiometer yes. I really agree with you here. I think you hit the spot. This was bothering me so much. I just don’t want to be involved to that extent if it’s going to become a fight between the two

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@asparagus it’s clear that you love them both very much and want them to succeed. If they are experiencing marital problems, an influx of cash isn’t going to help. It sounds like they need to work together as a couple to fix finances and their relationship. ❤️

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@radiometer that’s the answer.  

Answer 33

Wash your hands of trying to help them monetarily. Assist them with budgeting if they want. Be ready for them to basically not speak to you for awhile.  

Answer 34

Let them fall on their bottoms. It’s the only way they will ever have their “a-ha” moment. If they know you will help them out, they won’t ever actually try to get their finances straight. You’ve done enough. Encourage them, but stop giving them money.  

Comments

@taima330 agreed. One step back and pray for their aha moment to be close

Answer 35

I would stop helping personally, if they know you will save them they don’t have a reason to budget

Answer 36

Do they have children? If so, make sure the kids are fed and dressed. If not, cut them off completely financially.  

Comments

@jotunheim yes, one boy (7). Oh, he’s fed.  

Answer 37

Nothing. I learned that with money matters it’s better to adopt a “not my circus, not my monkeys. ” You’re too close to the situation.