+55 votes
by (3.3k points)
You ever had someone ask you questions about SEO and then challenge everything you say? Or is it just 'cause I'm a woman?  
You ever had someone ask you questions about SEO and then challenge everything you say?

47 Answers

+81 votes
by (11.6k points)
 
Best answer
Honestly, I think if you entertain the idea of wondering if it's "just because you're a woman" then it's probably your flawed thinking that's overtaking and shaping your reality. I was programming at age 7, and studied electronics at school age 15 in a class of 26 boys, getting the best grades in the school for 4 years - but the teachers back then (30 years ago) rejected the idea of a girl being allowed to do a boys subject in case I brought shame to the department. I fought for the right to do it and it was empowering. You have to believe you're capable, able and equal in order to get others to see that.  
by (14.2k points)
All of that is commendable. At the same time, you should never have had to fight to be treated the same as the males in your department in the first place.  
by (11.6k points)
@betimes Friedman True but the world evolves and most of us have had to live through discrimination in order to get to better times. It definitely made me a fighter and a bit sassy lol
by (14.2k points)
@vanda I've mentored a few women in different management and sales fields including SEO. Always had to teach them how to be what I call "a nice bitch. "
by (850 points)
@vanda I was getting smacked down by a third grade teacher in the Midwest because I intuitively knew the physics involved in a stupid art project. It’s taken a very long time to realize what’s happened to me “because I’m a woman. ” Women are often the worst offenders, too. “I survived the fight and I’ll be damned if I’m going to help you get here, too. ” We need to call out the women complicit in “Me Too, ” too. Sorry guys. Go ahead and hate. I’ve had it with this BS.  
by (850 points)
@vanda niche your services exclusively for women. Not sure they are much better, but can’t be worse.  
by (11.6k points)
@hirudin couldn't think of anyone worse than working only with women  I'm completely fine with guys, not sure if you've misunderstood my comments
by (850 points)
@vanda quite possibly . I do know designers who have niched into women-owned businesses. I’ve just seen too much underhandedness by men well after the fact that I’m jaded. I was the only woman in physics classes many times. It does a number on your psyche after a while. Saying it’s the woman’s fault for thinking the way she does doesn’t fly.  
by (11.6k points)
@hirudin well we'll have to agree to disagree. Everyone gets discrimination in some capacity. It's horrible but we have to take some responsibility for ourselves too.  
+56 votes
by (730 points)
Without knowing more about him you cannot tell. Some people are just dicks period.  
+39 votes
by (3k points)
Just do a few talks at SEO conferences then you can produce the "don't you know who i am" trump card. Or show your bank balance, or your powerful SEO connections. It's about the best you can do - there's probably still people out there that can rank themselves at will for anything (basically the ultimate proof of credentials) but they're probably not looking for clients. And yeah there's probably a few that'd be judgemental towards women. Not exclusive to SEO. Saying that everyone does need a filter. There's so much information flying about and variations of it - sometimes it just boilds down to whether youre bothered/motivated enough to reach a good conclusion amongst others.  
+51 votes
by (670 points)
Egos are egos
+47 votes
by (680 points)
So I used to think this, but honestly it depends on the person. Both men and women can do this, just like there are men and women that will actually trust what you say and appreciate it. That sucks you had to go through that though :(
+33 votes
by (2.2k points)
I had a conversation/arguement with someone who took a 5 day SEO course and was trying to tell me, someone with 15+ years of experience, what to do lol  
+43 votes
by (2.7k points)
I'm Pakistani. People challenge EVERYTHING I say, seo even more so
+56 votes
by (710 points)
I have it all the time. :\
by (3.3k points)
No wonder you grew a 60k member women's group. I'm thinking that's the way to go
by (710 points)
@nickola26 LOL. It's been quite the journey. I get people who think I have no brain in my head. I've got one client like that right now.  
+57 votes
by (1k points)
Ugh yep
+56 votes
by (1.3k points)
Love challenges! Especially about SEO. I have so many numbers in my head, and they all wanna get out, spitting fire :))
+54 votes
by (1.8k points)
I just show them a few GMB rankings, phone calls generated (all I do is local) then ask them how their GMB(s) are doing. then some general free advice, then "send me an email if you want to go forward, etc. " but I don't do face to face :)
+44 votes
by (11.4k points)
It's because you're a woman.  
by (3.3k points)
@malefaction I'mma start going by Kurt Tierney
+51 votes
by (14.2k points)
Having coached and mentored a few women in SEO and related fields, yeah there are definitely some men out there that will give women a harder time. In one case, I even talked to a client two days later, said the exact same thing my mentee had told him, and got zero pushback. It shouldn’t be that way, but it is.  
by (850 points)
@betimes Friedman did you call him out?  
by (14.2k points)
@hirudin Oh yeah. I told him we wouldn't be a good fit to work together, why we wouldn't be a good fit, and wished him luck.  
+60 votes
by (850 points)
I’ve had women do this to me. Some want Google to love their new website, but think that producing content is working for Google for free. Google paranoia. You can’t fix stupid. Stop trying.  
+59 votes
by (680 points)
Sorry that happened to you. Think we all experience it, but definitely happens more to women unfortunately. Hopefully it doesn’t make you paint with a broad brush. My wife has had these same frustrations and I got her this book that I had finished and keep going back to as a refresher. She’s finding it very useful for different situations. It’s really good for anyone who sells and negotiates.  
https://g.co/kgs/XAJND3
+27 votes
by (5.4k points)
Sounds like someone's stepping. Time for an SEO deul lol
+53 votes
by (2k points)
"content won't do anything! " Umm you're wrong
by (3.3k points)
Whaaa? lol. That's the most important part
by (3.3k points)
Although maybe @squiggle & his lorem ipsum would disagree :P
+49 votes
by (3.9k points)
Yep, I go through this all the time.  
by (3.3k points)
@chew446 ugh, I'm sorry. This was my first obvious experience and it was sooooo frustrating
by (3.9k points)
@nickola26 Right. well it was an actual suppose to be male friend that did this to me first. I kind of blew up and got emotional on the phone with him cause he wouldn't stop challenging me and trying to make me feel dumb. After that, I figured out what it was about, his ego. So other men do it now, I laugh at them.  
+68 votes
by (1.6k points)
Yes my boss. He’s an engineer. Doesn’t matter where I got my information, he thinks he’s smarter. God forbid I test any theory either so I have no way of proving my point to him. A lot of people know they want SEO, but a lot of those same people don’t know what it is or how to do it effectively which makes it harder for you to do your job. That attitude also makes it harder for you to learn on the job and advance your career further. The good news is, I leave next week.  
by (1.6k points)
Also I could totally see some truth to you being challenged because you are a woman. It could totally be unintentional or subconscious, but I see it all the time in the workplace, especially in tech bro companies.  
by (580 points)
To this before :  
https://youtu.be/oHMd2Q6ngPc
+40 votes
by (7.3k points)
It's not just because you're a woman. I get it every once in a while. I mean, I just love it when someone calls me because their business website needs help, then he/she proceeds to tell me what I need to do. I'm here like "Okay, if that was all you needed to do, why haven't you done it yet? " Unfortunately, those with a little knowledge are usually the most dangerous. They've probably already screwed their site and SEO up and now they want to tell you how to fix it!  
by (820 points)
@ubald fact
+74 votes
by (11.6k points)
Only in this group lol. My clients have been 70% men and they're very respectful of my knowledge. I think it's about building a rapport at the right level. I work well with other technically minded people, whether in finance, legal, property, medicine, electrics, building or whatever. I always feel happiest when I can banter with them and I try not to be too authoritative, but instead command respect by showing I understand their business, industry and challenges. I prove I can help them by giving solid examples and use their own industry terminology to show I can adapt. If someone questionned me too much (beyond general intrigue and passion) it would be a big red flag that they'd want to micromanage me. Just get out and walk away. Your confidence and audience targeting should eventually stop this happening.  
by (1.3k points)
I refuse to be micromanaged!  
+52 votes
by (1.3k points)
Try being a photographer where everyone thinks they are a photographer. until you hear. Hey, how did you do that? Then they shut their mouth and don't question you anymore.  
+71 votes
by (9.2k points)
It's because you're breathing
+66 votes
by (2.5k points)
I rank and rent so I don't usually tell clients anything. As long as they are ranked, they don´t give a shit. But whenever I do audits, I almost always get some kind of questioning, untill they start ranking, then they don´t ask any more questions.  
+46 votes
by (2.9k points)
Yes! Not sure its' due to my gender, but now that I think about it, probs
+70 votes
by (5.6k points)
Maybe. Most likely. But it’s also an easy topic to challenge.  
by (3.3k points)
@maletta Gooden it was weird because he was telling me he gets 0 online conversion, asking for advice, then saying no and telling me how he did it. bro you did it wrong if it doesn't sell. dunno why he bothered to ask at all.  
+42 votes
by (1.8k points)
We actually include links to Google Developer, Google Webmaster Blog, Google Webmaster Central YouTube, etc in our audits for that very reason Karin. We finally got to the point where we tell our clients "We provide our best recommendations based on our experience and what the search engines share. You don't have to follow any of it, but if you're struggling with ranking down the road, please don't call us until you've implemented all of our recommendations. "
+58 votes
by (650 points)
I have a guy receiving 50 leads / month in a competitive niche with phone calls lasting 15 and 30 minutes but those leads are valueless to the client. Nothing I say could get through to him. Sometimes it doesnt matter.  
+58 votes
by (640 points)
People are afraid of getting ripped and burnt by SEO people - don't take it personally provide your service
+50 votes
by (4.8k points)
So was this with a client? I feel like sometimes clients have a hard time relinquishing control over this aspect of their business because they are used to running the business and think they know best. Or they had someone before who simply bowed down to them because they wanted to collect their money and not do the work. I'm dealing with that currently. Client keeps referring to how things used to be done by their old marketer. I then counter nicely with a reminder that their old marketer was generating garbage leads for them not even relevant to their industry, and didn't even both tracking conversions. I think if you can turn the conversation around to expose the flaw in their logic it's win win.  
by (11.6k points)
@kyle6 I think I'd manage to hear about the previous guy about. 3 times. before telling the client I'm not him, they hired me for a reason, and to (politely) jog on.  
by (4.8k points)
@vanda Agree. I'm always nervous though about getting a bad review etc if I come off too strongly. Of course at some point enough is enough since you are right it's like lol well why aren't you still working with the previous team then? Clearly they weren't happy, but also clearly still has things engrained in their head from the previous relationship.  
by (11.6k points)
@kyle6 if you're allowing your anxiety to dictate your boundaries with a client, you'll definitely end up with damaged confidence and then it's a vicious cycle. If they are the sort to throw around bad reviews for a simple disagreement, they seem very volatile and fragile as clients. I try to weed those out before even working with them. You can't let people scare you into going against your own personality or morals. I know it's hard, but just keep your boundaries. I have it in my contract that I can end a relationship if it becomes disrespectful or damaging to me. Something to consider?  
by (1.3k points)
In the same way as we view some of our own clients, I wonder whether the people who do work for us also see us as a collective bunch of jerks on occasion :-)
+70 votes
by (2.3k points)
I make up words and watch them write stuff down like fetzer valve and fratastat.  
by (4.8k points)
So what we do is break the SEO time barrier by pumping 1. 2 gigawatts of evergreen content daily through the browser causing a massive polarity reversal of all organic links. We make sure we're careful that we don't overheat the hypertexts flux capacitor with no more than three nanometers thick of link juice at any given time. To accomplish this we stabilize all our links tangentially across the summate vector with a proprietary automatic upgrading system developed in house by our master wizard SEO who ensures optimal page rank.  
by (2.3k points)
@kyle6 exactly!  
by (5.2k points)
You know about fratastats?  
by (2.3k points)
@grizzly of course. They go along with the fetzers. You ever try to get a fetzer fixer on a Friday?  
by (5.2k points)
@betimes no are they hard to get on Fridays?  
+62 votes
by (670 points)
I had a CFO challenge me in front of a Board so I ripped apart he paid likes of his previous campaign. Needless to say I no longer work with them but everyone knows he is a Tool. Absolutely Worth It lol  
+47 votes
by (2.3k points)
Definitely. You've to ask questions before you can prescribe a solution. Had one lead who at the 2nd meeting told us not to waste his time still gathering facts and expected an Asia wide regional marketing plan by the 2nd meet. Another was some guy whose server went down along with a few 100 sites after being attacked. Attitude was I know it all and the rest of you are idiots - but wanted someone to help him for free. Good luck with that.  
+43 votes
by (1.9k points)
Yeah, have some clients do that. It's draining and I'm considering firing them. On the other hand, my mum (who barely manages Gmail) asks me for advice with her computer to then say something like "hmmm. I don't think so". So, I don't know. There must be some human nature involved there, I guess ‍♂️.  
+62 votes
by (1.3k points)
Move on. Use the time on prospects that value your opinion.  
+41 votes
by (700 points)
I'll always remember the day when I was working in sales and my colleague told the client everything possible about a product and the guy turns to me. (She had been working there for years and I had a week) I go: "What she said" and the guy nods as a sign of acceptance and takes the deal. In SEO being under 30 also is another nice little factor to keep them questions coming. Just have to show results.  
by (11.6k points)
@rockefeller under 30 in age? I was over 30 when I started and been doing it for 12 years  
+45 votes
by (2.4k points)
Your a women. Men think they are smarter than us. Squeeze their little heads.  
by (11.6k points)
@si3 that's just as sexist in reverse.  
+74 votes
by (670 points)
I know that whenever I run into an issue with someone it is best to assume that it's because of my gender. It's just easier that way than assume any personal responsibility for my interactions.  
by (11.6k points)
@harmonious65877 harsh lol
by (670 points)
@vanda Right? As a non-binary fluid genderkin I often find myself in situations where cishet shitlords think that they are in a conversation with me. Really, I just want to talk AT them and have my word taken as gospel. Traditional 2-way conversations are obsolete it today's patriarch-busting society. I wish they'd learn. Hoping that we feel the Bern in 2020 and ship them off to be "re-educated".  
by (11.6k points)
@harmonious65877 I'm stealing that "non binary fluid genderkin"  
by (670 points)
With the amount of "Dear Diary" posts this group gets it won't be long before you can utilize it. Have fun with it!  
+51 votes
by (660 points)
Seems to happen on everything said in SEO
+34 votes
by (5.6k points)
Yeh, I'll go with par for the course. SEO is a very inexact art, and the market is laden with diverse opinions. What is "optimized" for one business is much less than optimal for another. One's confidence, willingness and ability to confront an aggressive inquisitor probably matters more than their gender in a situation like this.  
+34 votes
by (5.2k points)
It may seem troublesome to be challenged like that, but in the end it makes you a better SEO professional.  
+45 votes
by (3.6k points)
Nah. You may be talking to the wrong people. I too get this. My temptation is to think that I get this treatment cause I'm from eastern Europe. But after the self doubt goes away, it's easy to see that those who push back on things you know for sure to be true, speaks more about their ignorance than about yours/our ability to clearly communicate facts.  
+48 votes
by (3.3k points)
Mostly i was just frustrated af in the moment. I'm sure there is something I could have done better to make the interaction less hostile, and if not I could have ended it even sooner. ‍♀️ I'm always learning and growing, that's why I kick ass at what I do. I'm not usually super concerned about how others feel about me, I was just annoyed by the disrespect regardless of why it happened. i have deadlines yanno, and that was 30 minutes I won't get back.  
by (11.6k points)
@nickola26 you might find this group helpful  
https://www.facebook.com/groups/WPandUP/
+40 votes
by (780 points)
It is not just you - I stopped doing any client work about 4 years ago because I spent more time "talking to the client" than "doing SEO" and then the same client would complain about how long things were taking. Having said that, I do think women get a much harder time doing client stuff than us boys. So I would give you the same advice I gave myself and go do something where you are your own boss
+2 votes
by (1.6k points)
WHO DARES QUESTION THE GODS OF SEO?  
by (3.3k points)
@palladino25 it wasn't like that lol
by (1.6k points)
Before my client consultations, I always demand an ANIMAL SACRIFICE
by (1.6k points)
Diesel @kyle6 McClain this pleases the gods
by (1.7k points)
This one? Morgan Freeman would make a great digital marketing God. I think we should take a vote.  
by (110 points)
@palladino25 *Goddest
+24 votes
by (670 points)
It sounds like you've ran into a run-of-the-mill asshole, and are trying to wedge in a toxic ideology you've been indoctrinated with. My advice? Unbookmark Jezebel, BuzzFeed, Slate, etc., and become a smarter, wiser, and most importantly, happier person for it.  
by (850 points)
@lessen2 Stack agree. You can’t fix stupid, so stop trying.  
+35 votes
by (2.1k points)
I think it might be a bit of both. The wrong people are using questions to delay both making a decision or taking responsibility. Some people are "ask holes". If it's the other, see if they are repeatedly asking the questions you have already answered. Asking a question isnt a problem, asking the same question over and over means either they arent who you need to talk with or they dont believe you. I dont have the research but I will try to find it but there is evidence of underlying bias where confidence is confused with competence. And the reverse, lack of confidence is equated with lack of competence. Unfortunately this bias infects both men and women. It happens. We get better at recognizing it. Either way sounds like you've paid some dues. This isnt a reflection on you. Tell them what you charge to consult moving forward and you will put them on a waitlist, you cant take them on at this time. Move onward and upward.  
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