Question

Why do you think SEO community has so many heated debates and disagreements? Is it healthy to have different viewpoints?  

Answer 1

Considering it’s all conjecture, it makes sense that it’s so debated.  

Comments

@eightieth what is all conjecture?  

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@irritating SEO.  

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@eightieth SEO is all conjecture? Maybe to beginners. for those of us who’ve been doing it as a profession, it’s not conjecture at all. my methods have been reproduced and proven by myself and thousands of students, hardly conjecture

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@irritating That's simply wrong. Just because you're able to reproduce your methods does not mean it's not conjecture. SEO is the definition of conjecture, based entirely on inductive reasoning. You're taking it as a bad thing. It's not. You don't have all of the information. Nobody does (aside from insiders extremely familiar with the operation of the algorithm). We can still make a hypothesis on the data we do have.  

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I'm not sure you're actually familiar with what the word "conjecture" actually means. A lot of science (almost all of it) is based on conjecture.  

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@eightieth maybe we are having a semantic failure to communicate. I have all the information I need to rank, which is the point of seo, so I believe I DO have all the necessary information. maybe you disagree, or maybe I’m wrong, I just know I’ve generated hundreds of millions of dollars for my clients over the last 17ish years.  

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@irritating Necessary information is not all of the information. And yes, you have have all of the information *you* need. You've implemented a method that you're able to repeat. Again, almost everything we know (even outside of SEO) is based on conjecture. You know what you have to do to rank, even though you can't explain EXACTLY what is going on behind the scenes. (i. e. exactly how/why/when google gives weight to a page, exactly how much is generated from each routine in your method, etc). This information is not available to the public. You just know it works, and you're able to repeat it. That's inductive reasoning. Again. conjecture is not bad, it just is what it is.  

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@eightieth you lost me there, I’ll just agree with you, cool?  

Answer 2

It’s not taught ao much at universities and has no standardization.  

Answer 3

Because there is no formal education for one. any jackwagon can claim to be an expert after he illegally downloads one of my courses. several members of THIS group have “taught” my content in “their” courses. for example

Comments

@irritating ☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️sad how often this happens

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@boucher sad part, since they don’t get to ask questions, they can’t apply the training properly, so they charge some poor schmoe for seo, then they don’t rank, then one more example of bad seo

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@irritating I know. Same has happened to us as well. And then I get told it doesn’t work and every time it is because was not done correctly but done in some hack job manner

Answer 4

Let me just say the arguments here are way cleaner than any other marketing group. Different viewpoints are critical to progress and innovation. With enough humility, conversations with different perspectives turn into products that can produce really unique outcomes

Answer 5

Political communities for the best conflicts

Answer 6

Because we are playing the game while G changes the rules, and different techniques can still accomplish the same results.  

Answer 7

Which do you think is the most friendly marketing community?  

Comments

But to be honest i found the farming and poultry communities, "grow your own veggies" communities to be too friendly right here on facebook.  

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@legroom I can't stop laughing. Your brain is something else. lol

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Friendliest are the book communities. They are always posting books to one another just because they are nice. I am a huge reader so love a good book group. They all are 15k to 100k+ members as well. I haven't found a super friendly marketing group. The best of them would probably be the marketing group for women I am in. Don't think I have ever seen a full scale argument in there.  

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Language exchange communities are probably the best.  

Answer 8

Honesty, some of the biggest arguments I have seen on discussion forums over the years also provided the most value if you could see past the name calling and BS.  

Comments

All data is valid in this circus

Answer 9

Because the individual experiences of each and every one is different. What works for some might not work for others. Hence, there's no universal truth with regards to SEO.  

Answer 10

Unlike other streams of science, SEO's can get away purely based on theories and no evidence based data.  

Comments

You will always get the correlation is not causation response for your evidences though SEO is more about correlation theories.  

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Yes, but this use case is different. In general, correlation is not causation is true, but less true in this case of SEO. This is because all algorithms (even ML-based) are essentially all cause based (If this then that). Here the odds of a correlation existing because of causation is much much higher than other random correlations in nature. Besides, there are other mathematical models to prove causation where intervention may not be possible (see the book "The Book of Why" by Judea Pearl). We are not there yet in the field of SEO, but we are getting there. Not to mention there will always be people who simply refuse to learn. There will always be flat earthers. Cant help beyond a point.  

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This is what @eightieth was saying above

Answer 11

That’s the internet for you. mass public many w head issues that knows they can get away with being a prick/cunt

Answer 12

Because the road to rankings isn't definitive. Different tactics and strategies have worked for different people and people try different tactics because no one truly knows the exact formula. If we all did, then heated debates and arguments would be minimal. Compare it to something where there is mass consensus in doing something one way. Say filling a glass of water from the tap. You put the glass under the tap, turn the tap on, fill the glass with water, turn the tap off. There's no debate needed, everyone agrees that's how you fill a glass of water and get to your desired result. Now try and do that for ranking websites in search.  

Comments

Ahh but I like to turn the tap on, stick my finger under the stream and feel the temp of the water first. Then fill my glass and turn the tap off. lol

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@exception3794 seriously? This is why water pouring beginners get stuck. We need to keep water 2. 0 methodology in the past where it belongs! ;)

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@catnap nah our summer gets insanely hot and our water pipes get so heated up it's crazy.  

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@exception3794 just like winter here (Canada) but the opposite.  

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@catnap in South Africa our winters are mild compared to what you experience

Answer 13

A big part of the problem too is that many of the loudest voices in the community are spreading misinformation. They somehow still get cult-like followings that will defend them no matter what facts you hit them in the face with. Many of them are not even doing SEO in the real world. They are just running a blog or YouTube channel posting BS. I mean people still buy courses from and give money to “SEOs” that get caught faking screen shots to make sales.  

Comments

@boatload agreed on the loudest voices in here are usually the people who need to go sit in the corner and take notes for now. Because they need to learn.  

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@torras just to be clear, I didn’t mean this group specifically. I meant the SEO community as a whole.  

Answer 14

It's not. I am in a PR group this is tame in here  

Comments

I do love a good donnybrook. Any group suggestions ?  

Answer 15

This thread is going to be lit, proving the exact point Seven was making. Bring out the popcorn!  

Answer 16

A friend once shown me the suicidal thoughts of many members in a private Scientology forum. He was also a Scientology follower. He went to jail for trying to murder his parents for not giving him more money. He was a spoilt brat that went to all private schools and private university. Scientology gave him actually a better view on life and did become a humble person

Answer 17

The Cast Iron Cooking group gets pretty heated when you talk about sandblasting

Answer 18

I have to poke fun of the way you worded the question. "is the only marketing community with the most amount of heated debates and disagreements" It is the only but yet the most. It is because the climate and atmosphere is constantly changing. What was true 3 years. 10 years ago. is not necessarily true today. People then become entrenched and stick to their belief systems. The problem is the people treating SEO and guru's as a faith based system. People need to do their own testing and validate their beliefs.  

Answer 19

E-comm-related groups with gurus or MLM should be worse. They have more motivational quotes though with fancy cars as backgrounds, though.  

Answer 20

Because in most cases the game rules are changing way too fast to be able to record proper experiments. Or in plain words, we basically have no idea what are we doing

Answer 21

Yeah, quite a messy industry. One of the problems causing the mess is that folks mistake their opinions for facts. And, folks with SEO experience in a handful of industries extrapolating laws and rules for any and all industries. Perhaps we should somehow get folks to do Epistemology 101. That ought to clear out a lot of heated arguments about all sorts of stuff.  

Answer 22

Because they are deeply rooted into the emotional being, and may or may NOT have any logic attached to them. Humans are a close looped system. I know what I think > I know what I feel > This is what I believe to be true about the world. its very hard to inject new thought into this type of system. Further study: How to Evolve your Brain - Dr. Joe Dispenza Maybe Logic - Robert Anton Wilson minds are like parachutes they only work if they are open!  

Comments

@sawyor640 add Dr Bruce Lipton to those two.  

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@exception3794 Love him as well. Biology of belief should be on everyone's book shelf.  

Answer 23

Guest Posts have been penalized in the past. why is anyone surprised?  

Answer 24

The reason why everyone has different viewpoints on SEO is everyone has a different strategy which surprisingly works for them. There’s never wrong or right. After all, SEO is not one size fits all.  

Answer 25

Nothing wrong with heated debate provided it stays on point and doesn’t get personal.