Question

So my v3 hub died.  Completely dead.So my v3 hub died. Completely dead. My v2 hub had done the same thing, and rather than warranty replace it I purchased a v3. It died in 368 days. 3 days past the warranty period. It had been randomly dropping off my network for quite a while until it died. Tried to contact Smartthings about a replacement as it had been failing within the warranty period. When I would call I was told daily that "someone will call you back today". Nobody ever did. Finally about a week had passed and I called again and told the rep I am not hanging up until I get an answer. Well I found out why they weren't calling me back. I was s*** out of luck. They say I have to buy a new one. They must have been embarrassed to tell me. That's not even the worst part. To find out there is no backup and restore of all my complicated automations is unbelievable! What network device in 2020 is incapable of having it's data backed up? So what I learned is. Smartthings hardware is junk. Their software is garbage. (No backup, and the interface stinks (you're fooling yourself if you don't think so). And they came out with an updated app, but you still need to use the old app for most everything. Just dumb. Their "support" is useless. Does anyone know if there is something like ActionTiles for Hubitat?  

Answer 1

This type of stuff keeps me awake at night. just really wish ST would create some sort of account backup to mitigate the stress caused by this type of sh*te.  

Comments

How hard could it be to create a backup function? And the fact that Smartthings doesn't want to research why my hubs died tells me I think they already know.  

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There is alot of things they could do but it's so slow to add new features. Tbh all tech companies seem to be like that Amazon, google, samsung. It's like watching paint dry. Then when it comes out its lack lustre. Backups, local operation, api support, scheduled reboot for mesh repair etc. People looking for those for years.  

Answer 2

Though my smartthings hub is still working i spent a week or so deciding if i wanted to move to hubitat or Home assistant (i decided on home assistant anyway and loving it) but from the videos i watched i am sure hubitat has a dashboard built in and ran locally. Anyway if it wasnt for the single zwave device i have the ST hub could become the dogs new frisbee  

Comments

I did the same a few weeks ago. Using LoveLace to replace ActionTiles and like it. it's different, but if you want the ActionTiles look there are other options. I'm using a Zigbee/Zwave USB Stick to get those devices on, but have a few zwave devices that just don't work well on HA for some reason (First Alert Smoke/CO detectors and a Dome Siren) and those are still on ST along with a KwikSet deadbolt but that is it. The HA user interface is customizable per user and WAY more user friendly for the rest of the family than ST is. ST's app is actually horrible IMO. difficult to use, multiple levels, with HA I can present just the items a user needs to see or cares about.  

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@convolution85 with smartthings it didnt take me long to start hitting its limits , was wanting to do stuff with it that just werent possible, and yet its easy with HA, i have been messing with lovelace (former actiontiles user) its great, i am waiting for my zigbee stick to be delivered to move all zigbee devices over but as i only have 1 zwave device i couldnt really justify paying for a zwave stick when i can just share it from smartthings . I looked for the combined stick but couldnt find one for sale here (uk) and wasnt sure about frequency mis-matching . Was abit daunting when i first booted it up but didnt take long to start understanding it all. Working on a floorplan picture element card at minute just mapping out my rooms . And ye the ST app was a right pain. Kept crashing and slow as hell for me. I tried to share some controls to the kids and it just shared everything. In HA i can limit them to their own bedroom control

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@pachton8 Yea, and it's not confusing for them! it's awesome. AND, you get working TTS to google without running an app with a dev virtual google speaker on another machine.  

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AND you get real backups that you can restore. . sending my snapshots to Google Drive with a community add on and it works awesome. running mine as a VM, and before upgrading, can shut it down and make a copy if I want to be super safe.  

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I have played with HomeAssistant i feel its very un-user friendly but thats just me. i cannot figure out for the life of me how to get the majority of my devices into HA. they do not appear in any of the configurations. I know people love it, that why i keep trying but until i can get my most used devices into it, its useless to me

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@convolution85 ye i setup the Gdrive backup last night, i started learning it on a VM but i cant leave that rig on 24/7 really, so grabbed a pi4 to run on

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@detention What kind of devices are you trying to get in? The only thing I really didn't like was adding Zwave devices. it works, it's just a different process than Zigbee and not as verbose.  

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@pachton8 I am running it on a server class machine now. don't want that on 24x7 either, but I needed a low power device for some lab stuff anyway, and ordered a NUC 10 that will be here this week and will just move it to there.  

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@convolution85 i almost bought a NUC i5 for it. But the cost difference was huge so grabbed the pi for now as should i decide i need more power, i can repurpose the pi anyway

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@detention its foreign at first, ive loaded it up a few times in the past and got bored after 20 minutes of failing lol. But figured with lock down id have another go. Its not easy to get your head around it to start with but worth the effort to learn and persist  

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My Front door lock is a Schlage Connect Zwave lock cant figure out how to add it, my smart light bulbs are Cree, Wyze plugs, Keen smart vent, and i have 2 battery powered smart switches that cover my regular swites to turn them on and off. i forget the brand name at the moment. these all work in ST currently and without jumping through hoops to get them in there. and i have Tailwinds IQ3 garage door opener on its way to me as well

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@detention You have a zwave/zigbee radio for HA?  

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@convolution85 i honestly am not sure how to answer you. this is like my 4th attempt at HA maybe my 5th and i still feel so muck like a noob. in my integrations page i have a block that says "z-wave" is that what you mean?  

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@detention as home assistant is ran on standard computer hardware you need to add a zigbee radio and/or zwave radio . These are usually usb sticks you plug in so it has the ability to create the zigbee/zwave network. Smarthings etc have them built in

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@detention Not sure about the specifics of your install, but you'd have to add a radio as HA is just software to run on a device/VM. I bought a USB stick to handle it. You can also just connect it to ST and have the devices show up in HA to just play around with it and leave them on Zwave/Zigbee on ST.  

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@convolution85 thanks but literally all my smart devices are in ST. the things that show up in my HA are cool but they dont do automations. like everytime i open my HA it finds my printer. It sees my plex server which is again cool, but nothing i need to automate.  

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@detention Yea, you need the radio to do them directly, and zwave/zigbee devices can only be attached to a single hub at a time. to get a taste for HA if you want, add ST as an integration to HA and you will see all your ST devices in HA. the automations and scenes will configure the same as though they were directly attached. The advantage of adding the USB stick is that they are all truly local then.  

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@convolution85 i have been fighting for weeks trying to add ST to HA but cannot get past this "Base_URL" error and i have read alot on it and am 99. 99% sure i have everything correct.  

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@detention make it easier for ya self and get the free 30 days nabu casa cloud in HA makes it easier to link to ST, you won't have to mess with base url then.  

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@pachton8 then after 30 days I have another subscription that at the moment I cant afford. Times are tough here for my family so if there is something I can do for free I would rather do that. I really do appreciate that suggestion and maybe I can try it after this is all over and things get better It just pisses me off that my HA is accessible via https using my letsencrypt container and I have url setup in the configuration. yaml but when I try and set up the integration I get an error saying my web hook is wrong and it shows my local IP which is not defined in my configuration file

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@detention it can be done for free. Just much easier with cloud. Just for ya to get a taste it doesnt require any payment details to start 30 days, just email addy. To get get ST integrated with HA you have to make your HA accessible remotely. A cloud makes this easy but cost something like 5 a month. Or you can port forward etc to make it accessible which is the "base_url " method you mentioned.  

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@pachton8 my HA is accessible from https

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@detention ye i didnt realise it said "read more" and only read the first half of your comment  i havent spent any time on this area as i jumped straight in for the cloud access anyway

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@pachton8 no worries it was a long reply. So annoying that I know its right but it still says the IP in the error and that IP is not in my yaml file

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@detention i havent been with HA long enough for me to be able to diagnose easily yet but i assume your config. yaml (green tick in corner if using file editor) is valid and you restart HA after you change it?  

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@pachton8 yes. I try to verify the config after changes and when it shows good I restart

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Jeez. Just watched a “beginners” video on HA. Holy crap! Do they really think the every day homeowner is going to add virtual machines etc just to turn on lights? I’m a physicist, do some programming, and feel pretty comfortable with this stuff but damn I was sorta laughing at the end about how ridiculous HA is. Maybe it’s easier once you get past the install. ‍♂️

Answer 3

I completely agree! After seeing too many reports of hubs dying, I decided to document everything that I have configured. All of the DTHs, smart apps, automations, pistons, etc. It took a while, but at least I feel prepared to start from scratch if I ever need to (although I’d probably look at HA at that point).  

Comments

Smart. I wish I had. I had so many convoluted automations to get things to work exactly the way I wanted. I'm not sure I could figure the out again without hours of work. I figure if I'm going to do that I may as well get different hardware that is reliable and start from scratch.  

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Same here with the convoluted automations. I lost track of how many hours I spent documenting, and if I didn’t have my hub available to reference I think i would have given up trying to figure it all out. I feel your pain, I just really don’t get why they haven’t added a backup/restore option after all of these years.  

Answer 4

Just a thought here and i may be wrong. but couldnt you have done your Automations in WebCore and i believe WebCore allows you to backup the pistons. i know that does not help you now and i am sorry for that, but this could help others perhaps?  

Comments

No webcore-I had lots of automations in different modes. It was pretty convoluted and I had JUST started to learn webcore.  

Answer 5

My v2 hub was dying after 2 years. I made the switch to Hubitat. Most everything is run local and they have a way to back up everything.  

Answer 6

WOW. i guess i feel lucky or i am on borrowed time my V2 hub is like 2 years older or more now and it works (knock on wood)

Comments

Document all your settings!  

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90% of my automations are so simple its not a big deal and most of them are done in WebCore

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@detention mines about the same age and I’ve had no issues. I’ve a lot of complicated automations. I’m hoping there is a way to back them up in the IDE.  

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@byerly only if you made them into pistons I believe. Pistons can be backed up

Answer 7

I have looked at Hubitat, they say it can work locally without internet but if you were to use IFTTT how will that work if there is no internet and you can't add wifi devices. I have played around with HA before getting my Samrtthings Hub, running it on Raspberry Pi seems unreliable (or it could be that I don't know much) and online remote access is very difficult. So none of them seems to be perfect, I prefer Samrtthings because it is simple you have an app, can access it from anywhere.  

Answer 8

Can you explain what you mean by no backup. I have had a hub for years with no issues but would like to be ready. I assumed the app it self that has everything in it is the back. Does a new hub not just auto use the old settings

Comments

@disparate0 nope the Zigbee and ZWave associations are stored in the hub itself (has to for the tech to work) weve been asking for a backup / restore for literally years. This is why changing hubs is a MASSIVE PITA.  

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@anatolia7046 that's crazy. Even stored in the hub there's no reason the new hub couldn't work once synced but I guess they don't want to write that program. Just borrow the code from harmony or many other hubs out there

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Ill give them the fact that its not that easy. Especially when dealing with security issues in the specs. That said, its not impossible. Thats why whenever someone mentions something about hub migration om the community site its always met with a chuckle and a large groan. As of this morning I have 213 devices registered to my hub, 18 of which are Zigbee and 81 are ZWave. Trust me, this issue is very near and dear to my heart. I had a scary moment earlier this year when we thought the Zigbee radio was dying in my hub. (thankfully it automatically fixed itself) the new V3. Replacement is still in box in my office waiting just in case.  

Answer 9

The way these hubs work does not make for a simple backup/restore/replace process. Each device is tied to the hub's network ID. To join a new hub (a new network), each device must be excluded from the old hub (a reset will do the same), then paired to the new hub. There is no way to issue a network transfer to a device. Also, when a device joins a network, it receives a new device ID. That ID is used for all communications (device to device, automatons, etc. ). While you might be able to identify which switch is which, without that assigned ID, your hub has no clue.  

Comments

@ides8 maybe but it is almost criminal to market any technology with the complexity of Smartthings without a backup/restore/migration tool.  

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Again, it's inherent to the protocol, not the hub manufacturer.  

Answer 10

Gonna be fun win the wink refugees read this thread

Answer 11

The fact is, before the Smartthings hub was put on the market they should have developed a backup/restore/migration tool. They should stop all current development and put all resources into the backup/restore/migration. If my hub crashes there is no way I will replace it with a Smartthings hub.  

Comments

@schistosomiasis Couldn't agree more.  

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@schistosomiasis I feel the same. what would you move to? I’m getting pretty worried about my hub now.  

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@byerly Hubitat

Answer 12

Not so Smart, SmartThings.  

Answer 13

It should have a backup, that's just absurd at this point - but you can do it yourself, kinda. Use Webcore, back up your Automations there, use variables in your pistons and you'd be back up running in an afternoon of busy work. Sucks but sucks less than creating everything over again. Really is inexcusable from Smartthings not to have backup/restore. I have my own ST setup but I also manage many setups for others - well over 2 dozen. I've NEVER had a hub go bad let alone 2. I'm thinking that there is something at your (the OP) location that is killing them? Do you have them surge protected? Do you have them brown out protected? Each of the ones I manage are on surge and UPS protection, never lost one in years. Something there is stressing them, or maybe just bad luck and coincidence but with 2 going bad in a short period, I'd be looking for a cause.  

Comments

@disparate0 Oliver one died at my office and one died at my home. The one at home is on a power conditioner with my servers and other hubs. Never had a problem with any other hardware. A google search shows this is a common issue with SmartThings hubs.  

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@scranton a full over/under conditioner should've protected it from the normal issues. Yeah, I've heard of hubs going belly up, but I've never encountered it - no doubt it happens though. You seem particularly unlucky though.  

Answer 14

Yes, Hubitat has its own built-in Dashboards, which is similar to ActionTiles, but not quite as polished in some respects. However, the Hubitat Dashboards run locally on the hub. This means you can directly access them from any browser on your LAN, even if your internet connection is down. They can also be accessed remotely via Hubitat Cloud Server. SharpTools is also available for Hubitat if you want a nice, polished web portal/dashboard to monitor and control your devices. It does require internet access be up and running for it to work. Hubitat does offer backup and restore functionality. At least all of your automations, dashboards, etc. can easily be recovered. You will still need to reset and re-pair Zigbee devices in the event of a hub replacement. The Zigbee devices will pop right back into their old device slots and just work. Z-wave devices will need to be excluded and then paired again. Any Apps that use these will need to be tweaked to use the newly paired Z-wave devices. But at least the backup and restore functionality is a major improvement. In fact, you can easily restore a backup if you somehow messed up some automations and want to get back to where you were beforehand. Doing so, on the same hub, will not disrupt any of your Zigbee or Z-wave devices.  

Answer 15

My V2 is 4 years old. I hope it doesn't die any time soon!